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Astrological Update from Rosemary Clark
interviewed by Dr. Zohara Hieronimus, DHL, February 25, 2018

Rosemary Clark

Dr. Zohara Hieronimus, D.H.L.

Zohara Hieronimus: Welcome to 21st Century Radio! I'm Dr. Zohara Hieronimus. Laura Cortner is our Executive Producer and Anita Brockington runs our board. Our guest this hour, Rosemary Clark, is a world renowned astrologer and founder of AstroLogic a counseling service in Charlottesville, Virginia. Rosemary is as well an independent scholar and interpreter of Egypt's sacred traditions. Her continuing study of the Egyptian religious and metaphysical legacy encompasses a 40 year background of historical research, Mid-East travel and the development of a repertoire of unique talents in the recreation of Egypt's sacred skills and astronomy, temple ceremony and arcane rituals. Joining us quarterly this past year we've been able to look at the cosmological forces as in astrological patterns at work and what manifests as physical events, trends and what to look for down line. She has been accurate in predicting the Mueller indictments, the stock market correction, and will share her own predictions regarding the NRA and its place in American society in the future. Given that we are living through the influences of the worst president in U.S. history, it's important to appreciate how easy it is to predict his imbalances, ethical and intellectual ignorance and the cruelty in his nature that is revealed in his comments and actions. Now ranked by both Republican and Democratic scholars as the worst president in U.S. history, tonight we will look once again at DT's astrological chart, the United States' chart and how it's all relative to a variety of current events. Thank you so much for joining us again Rosemary!

Rosemary Clark: I am so glad to be here at this very compelling time.

ZH: You know I notice that you and I, and people may not know this, we set up these interviews months in advance and the last time you joined me was after the horrible KKK white supremacist march in Charlottesville, where you live...

RC: Right.

ZH: And now you're here after the horrific shootings at Marjorie Stoneman Douglass High School in Parkland, Florida on Valentine's Day: February 14th, 2018. So I don't know what it is that you and I have going on here, but obviously it is prescient.

RC: Well, at critical times we always want to rise to the occasion with the knowledge that we've cultivated to try to find our way through it, to cope with it and to hopefully prevent these kinds of conditions developing in the future.

ZH: So why don't we start there? It's certainly a mainframe concern for all of us nationwide. What was happening on February 14th, 2018?

RC: Well, in the chart of the U.S. we had a very critical Mars transit. And it was affecting not only the U.S. chart, but it was affecting those at the moment of the shooting, who lived in Parkland, Florida. Because the U.S. horoscope has 12 degrees of Sagittarius rising and 12 degrees Mars was in the event hitting both Parkland and the U.S.

ZH: Wow.

RC: So you know it was the right place, but we want to look at, you know, the person who was responsible for all of this. I suggest that listeners if they are interested in checking on people who commit these sorts of atrocities, the booking documents in Parkland, Florida for Nikolas Jacob Cruz was published and he was born September 24th 1998. So he was not part of the post-millennial group who were affected by his aggression. He was apart from this group and that I think was a factor, because this is a very powerful group, if I may digress.

“[The NRA] is experiencing, as all of us do, a Saturn Return. ... So right now, in its 5th Saturn Return, this organization is either going to undergo a revision of its mission once more or it's going to disband. Because Saturn does represent the dissolution of an existing status quo as well. It's either purge or die.”
— Rosemary Clark, on 21st Century Radio® 2/25/18

ZH: Yes, please do...

RC: On those young people, who have impressed all of us, so very much in the last week, with their activism, with their articulate expression of their grief and their anger, and what to do about it. Now these children are coming of age this year. They are turning 18. Eighteen years ago was the great conjunction, another stellium or grouping of planets in May of 2000, where we had all the visible planets: Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn in their 20 year conjunction cycle and these children were born, they're 17, they're turning 18 now, with this signature. Now going back to U.S. history, since the inception of our country, every 20 years we have a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction, which the ancients followed and used for predicting cultural changes, economic development, land expansion, and other effects for the groups of people and generations that were past, present and to come. So it's particularly affected the U.S. with the death of a president, who takes office during these Jupiter-Saturn conjunctions that occur every 20 years, going back to 1820, in fact. So we call the people who were born during these cycles, the generational changers, the movers and the shakers and if you just look back at 1920, 1940, 1960, 1980, and now 2000, we've got a new group coming of age who are going to be the movers and the shakers and they're going to be voting for the first time this year. And the only regrettable thing that we of course understand about what their future is going to be is that they are going to be so much molded by this tragedy that they're experiencing. However, in the end, I do believe that what we call them, the "Post-Millennials" or "Gen Z" as some social scientists are calling them (I don't want to go with Gen X, Y, and Z) but really they are most effectively the movers and changers of the new millennium.

ZH: When they were born...

RC: So looking at their signatures, we can see that now is the time as they're coming of age that they're going to be creating some significant changes in concert not only with the conjunction that they carry, but conjunctions that are coming up in 2020. They are quite amazing.

ZH: Well before we get to that, before we get to the 2020, Rosemary, before we get to the 2020, I want to come back to this Post-Millennial generation. When they were born, was their Pluto in Sagittarius?

RC: Let's see. Yes it was.

ZH: Right so and now...

RC: And it was at 12 degrees of Sagittarius going back to the rising sign of the U.S.

ZH: So now explain to our audience, what that means while I have a sensibility of it from my years doing astrology. Explain what we see when a whole... because you can kind of get the temperament of a generation by where their Pluto is when that whole generation is born. Like we the Baby Boomers were born primarily with Pluto in Leo. So we experimented with change in family structure and individuation and the individual themselves and the group coming together in that way to make a powerful leadership shift, which we did. And now, this generation with Pluto in Sagittarius when they were born, tells us what about this entire generation?

RC: Well, the sky is the limit. The archer is pointing to the spiritual destination of humanity. And the half man, half horse is grounded in the reality of Earth experience, but also nature, and yet is morally pointing toward and aiming for the spiritual aspect of life. And again, the U.S. has the 12th degree of Sagittarius rising; so these children were born with Pluto at 12 degrees of Sagittarius

ZH: Fascinating.

“[W]e've got a new group coming of age who are going to be the movers and the shakers and they're going to be voting for the first time this year.”
— Rosemary Clark, on 21st Century Radio® 2/25/18

RC: Their connection to the founding of our country, which is July 4th, 1776, is personal as well as social and governmental and generational. So they have a particular connection to our country. And again when this shooting began, Mars was at 12 degrees of Sagittarius.

ZH: Unbelievable.

RC: It's all interconnected. Unfortunately, you know Mars does represent aggression. It can represent war, murder, guns and so forth, but it's also defensive. It's also protective. There's another face to each of these powers that we deal with in astrology and obviously this group of people is going to go for, in their Sagittarian striving, the other side of Mars.

ZH: And the beautiful thing for me about the Sagittarian influence is that there is nothing diminished by the physical world in the sense, because one is looking so far ahead and yet standing in the present. Sagittarians always seem to be the ones that come up with very kind of unique perspectives about things that everybody else almost has gotten stuck in and they can simply shift a single little speck and go, but wait look at where the arrow is going. And it might not be to a target per se, it might be shooting into the air.

RC: As also Kahlil Gibran said, you know, "you are the bow and the children are the arrow." But Sagittarius also tells us that there is a melding of the human and the divine. You know, Earth and Sky that the archer can achieve.

From a demonstration organized by Teens For Gun Reform, an organization created by students in the Washington, DC area, in the wake of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Laurie Shaull / CC BY-SA 2.0

ZH: Well, you know I think for all of us both as parents and grandparents watching these youth coming of age stand up and call BS for what it is, is just heartening. The tragedy of course is that it's come out of such loss and you know just so much loss of life.

RC: Yes.

ZH: And so much trauma.

RC: I am reminded also of what the great British astrologer, Charles Harvey, told me once, how children and their grandparents, how close they are, because if you take a coin and you press it into clay, you wind up with a sunken relief, but if you add more clay into that you wind up with a raised relief and so that's how children and their grandparents are. There's a generation that skipped. And so we of the Baby Boom generation are looking at these Post-Millennials and saying "Yes, they're going to finish the job."

ZH: Yes. Yes and for all of us who have been activists it's very liberating. I have to say that. Not to say that the hardship and the loss is anything anybody would want as a reason for this birth, but that's how life often times works — is it's out of our losses and suffering that some of the greatest beautiful things on Earth are created and we see that in non-profits nationwide, that have come out of so many individuals' hardships and losses. And they turn into such a gift for others. So we are going to take a break and when we come back and then you had started moving towards and we should continue that discussion I think about this Jupiter Saturn continuation — another cycle of it in 2020, is it?

RC: Yes, but there's a few things that are coming up sooner that are going to...

ZH: Oh good, well, then let's do that. I would like to get up to date on the Russia connection for Trump and the Mueller investigation, because you predicted exactly what is unfolding well in advance of when you know commentators were saying "oh this might happen" you made it very clear this is going to happen. And it's going to happen on his watch. So we'll be right back. If you are just joining us and you have an interest in current events not so much from a political perspective, but an astrological one, I think you'll find as many of us do worldwide, who work with astrology, is that it helps bring some semblance of order to appreciating why things manifest the way in which they do on Earth. Our guest is Rosemary Clark. You can learn more about her wonderful work at her website: www.TempleHarakhte.org. That's TempleHarakhte.org

— — —

ZH: Welcome back to 21st Century Radio! Rosemary Clark, a world renowned astrologer and founder of AstroLogic, a counseling service in Charlottesville, Virginia is with us and we're looking at the Astrological realities that affect how things manifest in the world and in particularly in the United States itself. So Rosemary the last time we got together, we talked a lot about Pluto and the Pluto factor and what's going on and when will it end and what can we expect. So maybe you can step back a bit. Tell us what's been going on and when it will shift.

RC: Well, when the U.S. was formed, Pluto was at the 27th degree of Capricorn. Right now after its cycle of 248 years is close to completing. It's going to return to that place and it's now at 20 degrees of Capricorn; so we can expect that in 2020, it is going to return to where it was at our inauguration. Now, what does Pluto represent? It is the furthest planet known in our Solar System and astrologically it has always represented the reins of power and the inevitable forces that we all have to contend with as mortals. It's money, sexuality, death, the powers that be and on its constructive side it's regeneration, renewal, transition to higher levels — I don't like to say higher levels of consciousness, but higher levels of existence and evolution, truly, is under the purview of Pluto. Now again it was in the horoscope of the U.S. in 1776 at 27 degrees of Capricorn and it's closely approaching in its 248 year cycle, a return. This is always in any planetary return back to its place for the initial event that there's going to be a shift and an evolution so to speak of that planet's influence. So what can we expect? Well, in astrology, a Pluto return we rarely see except in certain cultures or civilizations so we can really only speculate where it's going to be affecting the U.S. but it's going to be exactly four years from this month, February 20th 2022 and we can expect a regeneration in our government institutions. That's probably certain. And I think that there may be some revisions to our Constitution, that is also an indication, because Pluto falls in the Second House of banking and assets in the U.S. horoscope, there's going to be a transition to a different economic system. Capitalism, in a sense, is going to recede and there may be a different form of money, banking and trade that's going to be instituted.

ZH: So...

RC: Those are the essentials as I see it.

ZH: And when you look at these major shifts and you say something like that, I'm sure there's some people in the audience going "oh my god, what's going to happen to the stock market? What's going to happen to my retirement fund?" Does it look like it's Earth shaking in that way? Or that there's a continuity when you look at the other planetary aspects for that time period that it would be beneficial?

RC: Where Pluto is concerned, it's always slow change. It's never sudden disruption or all kinds of you know very, very difficult mind boggling disruptive kinds of conditions. No, we are already seeing the influence of this. Ever since Pluto went into Capricorn in 2008, it was November 26th of 2008, and wasn't that within a month of the big recession?

A section of Pluto's long-term cycles. Image: Tomruen / CC BY 4.0 Click to enlarge.

ZH: Yes.

RC: Okay, so then it lasts until 2024, so this is how long, in my view, it's going to take to really not only pull out of those recessional conditions, but also to revise and renew our economic structure and our institutions that these sorts of events are not going to threaten again. It's a renewal, a regeneration. I don't think it's going to affect anyone's retirement account and there's not going to be any big losses, except to those who, let's say, were really greedy and tried to exploit the chaotic conditions that made 2008 happen. The one thing that worries me is this Bitcoin phenomenon, because the concept I think is what eventually on a global scale is going to replace our paper money.

ZH: Yes, the currency.

RC: But it's not going to be even in the form that it is now. It's nascent right now. It really is the very beginning.

ZH: Interesting. All right so there are some other major things happening and the ongoing investigation, I don't know why the President keeps saying "no collusion." Collusion is irrelevant. You know it's not even a legal term for anything prosecutorial, conspiracy is. Collusion is an expression of how people behave and their behavior, but it has no legal import. So I don't know why he keeps chanting "no collusion." Well who cares?

RC: Yes, right.

ZH: It's fascinating to me that the entire public and much of the media keep repeating the same thing but if you listen to anybody who ever really understands the law, they'll tell you it's a meaningless term.

RC: Yes it is. And as far as Trump's horoscope is concerned, well we saw last year what factors were at play in making him President and we also took a pretty hard look at his personality and what characteristics have created this very volatile person. He was born at a Full Moon, an exact Full Moon with the Moon in late Sagittarius opposite a Gemini Sun. And that very puffed up ego, the last degree of Leo rising. And so it's a combination of Full Moon and a real strong emphasis with Mars in Leo right on the horizon of the birth that we have an aggressive, bullying type of volatile person. Now this is not to say that anyone else born that day is going to share these qualities to this degree. It really is the person's environment and heredity in terms of the direct influences of the parents (not the genetic) that shape the direction that these planetary influences are going to go in forming the person's character. And so for him I think it was probably the worst combination of mother, father kinds of influences that pushed the Leo rising into the bullying aspect and the volatility, the anxiety that seems to guide his every moment of existence with this Full Moon.

ZH: Yes and with Mars in Scorpio [in the 3rd House] at birth, it's combative at home. And it's interesting when you look at his progressed chart as you were kind enough to send me that now his Mars is in Leo in the 12th house which means it's no longer at home, it's affecting the entire world.

RC: Yes, and so what's happening with him right now that in my view is really very dangerous is that the planet Uranus, which represents great disruption and unforeseen events is moving very close to that Mars and the Ascendant that I just spoke of. Now this, first off, represents a person's physical condition. Our rising sign not only tells others how we act and describes our appearance, but it's also the physical constitution, our health. And I have seen people befall some really dangerous health conditions and accidents when the Ascendant is involved. Uranus is very powerful, very compelling. It can knock a person down.

ZH: And sudden.

RC: We've got this happening within weeks when the aspect becomes exact. It's going on right now. Which leads me to believe that this is a tremendous stress on him: the Russia investigation as well as the departure of so many staff in the White House and the number of Congress people who are moving away from him in influence and in approval. So this is isolating him and Uranus is going to create either some very difficult and dangerous health conditions or he's just going to flip out, frankly. Uranus can create deviations in our behavior and so there's some considerable amount of speculation here given that Uranus is very hard to predict. It depends on the person, the personality. And this is not looking good as far as physical condition is concerned. But there's something else that is also coming up that is equally as dangerous. I mentioned he was born at the Full Moon. Sun in Gemini directly opposite the moon in Sagittarius. Those two have moved almost 180 degrees away so that they are now on the horizon of his horoscope. They're touching again personality, relationships with other people, close relationships with family. And so I would say that there is some danger, not only to him, but to family members. Could it be Jared? Could it be Ivanka? Could it be that family members are implicated in the difficulties that he is currently facing? This is quite possible.

ZH: It's extraordinary when you, if anyone in the audience doesn't hear what I hear, which is how one can really look ahead and look at not only the temperament of a person, but an institution, a country. You can look at patterns. And you know that it used to be that most world leaders had good astrologers who counseled them. Reagan had an astrologer. Many great world leaders have had astrologers. Hitler had an astrologer and the only time he ignored their advice was the invasion into Russia and of course he paid that price. Thankfully.

RC: But the Royal family is also known, all of them use astrologers. I just read a forecast by a British astrologer who was consulted by Catherine. And you know they have always, Diana Princess of Wales, and now the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, they're all consulting astrologers and in Europe, astrology is a rather accepted way to plan and to look ahead for people. It's only in the U.S., which I think is perhaps part of the Puritan background, that astrology is denigrated and it of course, it's been picked up by our so-called scientific institutions as well. Nevertheless, there are many people around the world: India, China, Africa –who also use astrology for their planning and their understanding of personality, events, even choice of marriage partners.

ZH: Yes maybe one time we should do the chart of North Korea and its leadership to get a better handle on that. But for tonight we're going to take our last break. And then when we come back, I want, if you don't mind, to take a little bit of time to look at the NRA, because as we all know now there is a collision course that is really dramatic and important and I have great hope that good things will come out of this. We'll be right back. Our guest is Rosemary Clark. If you want to follow up with her work, go to www.TempleHarakhte.org. We'll be right back.

— — —

“[F]or the next 200 years those [Jupiter-Saturn] conjunctions that occur every 20 years will be in Air signs. So that's why it's called a mutation. It's going to move from Earth signs, which represent nature and land, the environment, government, and it's going to move into Air, which is more to do with spirit, education, and the growth of knowledge. And I think it's going to be interplanetary travel. We're talking about the next 200 years, not tomorrow.”
— Rosemary Clark, on 21st Century Radio® 2/25/18

ZH: Welcome back to 21st Century Radio! If you're just joining us, Rosemary Clark is with us, she's a renowned astrologer worldwide and founder of Astro Logic, again you can learn about her work and stay up to date with her astrological counseling as well. www.TempleHarakhte.org. So I mentioned and we'll just do it very quickly, because there's some other things that we probably should spend more time on and the NRA, we will have more time in the future, but talk to us a bit about the NRA chart, given that they were founded as you pointed out to me, November 17th 1871.

RC: Yes and I'd like to just shift back to the U.S. chart, because this pertains to it. Right now Mars is at 18 degrees of Sagittarius. In the U.S. chart Mars is at 21 of Gemini directly opposite. So the transit of Mars right now is going to, in March 3rd, next week oppose the natal Mars of the U.S. What that means is there is definitely going to be a showdown about guns. Because Mars is concerned with aggression, protection, and all of those forces that are concerned with the well being of people. Now if we look at the NRA chart there's some really interesting things going on with that, too. Its founding as you mentioned November of 1871, was a time when Saturn was at 7 degrees of Capricorn. Right now, this moment, Saturn is at 7 degrees of Capricorn. It is experiencing, as all of us do, a Saturn Return. In the case of the NRA, it's the 5th time that this has happened. And looking back at the history of this organization, which was founded as a marksmanship training club, there have been all sorts of involutions to its main mission and it always takes place during a Saturn return, every 29 and a half years. Now looking back in 1934, this organization first formed its lobby for Congress. Then in 1965, Congress instituted a form of gun control. In 1994, Congress instituted the ban on semi-automatic weapons. So right now, in its 5th Saturn Return, this organization is either going to undergo a revision of its mission once more or it's going to disband. Because Saturn does represent the dissolution of an existing status quo as well. It's either purge or die. And that's what Saturn is doing to this organization right now. I am sure that the loss of the corporate support that they have enjoyed and so many members rethinking the value of their membership is having a very serious effect and will for the next 9 months on this organization. It's going to be different by the end of this year, December 2018, then it is now. There's another transit that's affecting it, which is Jupiter. And Jupiter is in all that wide open happy sort of Santa Claus endowment, that sometimes in astrology we think of as this sort of influence. It's also the judiciary and the ways that laws are imposed for the well being and the betterment of society. That is at 23 degrees of Scorpio right now, our transiting Jupiter. The Sun sign of the NRA is 24 degrees of Scorpio. So here we have another shift in the mission, the face of this organization and it is inevitable, I promise you all. Because the U.S. chart is also promoting it, with Mars facing Mars saying enough of the violence, enough of the murder, and a change in the way we perceive protection and aggression, offense and defense in our society.

ZH: Amazing! Thank you so much for that. And we will keep an eye on that the next time we're together, we'll start keeping some tags on these updated realities. Now there's some other big things coming up and I don't want to miss that chance to hear from you about Saturn in Capricorn, Jupiter in Sagittarius, and Neptune in Pisces.

RC: Well, that is going to happen between... Last year actually it started in December, a few months ago, December 20th of 2017, up until March of 2025. We have these planets in places of the Zodiac where there's going to be some benefit at least and less stress. Jupiter moves into Sagittarius from Scorpio, November of this year. And it's going to last for a whole year until December of 2019. That I can assure everyone who is concerned about economics is going to institute some growth. Because Jupiter in his natural sign is certainly going to promote better judgment in investment and in corporate growth and job growth especially. Then we're going to have Saturn moving in Capricorn since December of last year into December of 2020 and this is going to promote more security and stability. Saturn in his natural sign also ensures that leadership is going to have a moral footing and some goals that are tangible rather than let's say ideological, idealistic. And of course we have had Neptune in Pisces since 2012 in February, and that's going to last until 2025. This I see as a period of spiritual and moral resolution. It's weeding out all the dirt and the crud that we as human beings tend to accumulate in our brains, in our spirits, and have to purge also periodically. So this I think is definitely more ideological and idealistic as an influence. So the best time for life changes, personal, is going to be next year 2019, when all three of these outer major planets, Jupiter, Saturn, and Neptune are going to be in their ruling signs, as we say in astrology. They're signs of strength. They're signs of stability, where we can depend on the decisions that we make in those realms are going to see results.

ZH: Boy am I looking forward to 2019. (laughter) Come on you can't get here soon enough! So there's another cycle and I know we don't have much time and all of these, ladies and gentleman, you have to appreciate what Rosemary's able to do, which is to condense encyclopedic amounts of information into very cogent understandings of the impact that they have and literally on any one of these things that we have touched on you could spend hours on, but we don't have that kind of time right now. So let's look at this, you had mentioned earlier in the program that we are moving towards 2020, what some people and you have called a great mutation, another cycle hit of Jupiter and Saturn.

RC: Well, this is every 20 years these two planets come together and they have, for the last 200 years in the U.S., made conjunctions in Earth signs. There was a couple of exceptions when Reagan was elected president and began his administration in 1980 and also in 2000, which was another odd one and we had the results of that with Bush as the President instead of Gore. So what's going to happen in 2020 is there's going to be a Jupiter-Saturn conjunction in Aquarius. And for the next 200 years those conjunctions that occur every 20 years will be in Air signs. So that's why it's called a mutation. It's going to move from Earth signs, which represent nature and land, the environment, government, and it's going to move into Air, which is more to do with spirit, education, and the growth of knowledge. And I think it's going to be interplanetary travel. We're talking about the next 200 years, not tomorrow.

ZH: Right, right well you're not alone in thinking that. I mean every futurist talks about the future of human experience being rather intergalactic and certainly those of us in 21st Century Radio has made a special showcasing for 30 plus years of our alien connections. Though I don't like to call them "alien," that's somehow or other foreign, but off-Earth societies. And when they all talk now about terra-forming Mars, Nikola Tesla always said that much of his knowledge came from Mars and Martians and people thought: you're ridiculous, but he was telling the truth.

RC: I think we're going to get very close to at least planning and visioning that kind of experience by 2020. 2020 is when with this shift in the Jupiter-Saturn cycle, that marks the movement of social and economic and political institutions into new dimensions and that's when it's going to start and I'm glad to say that it's going to be these Post-Millennials that besides lobbying for the protection of themselves and society, they're also going to really project into the future in their Pluto in Sagittarian way what is possible for human beings to do.

ZH: Yes, and I think I was going to say you know you see that in their... just their refusal to accept the status quo of things that have been wrong. I mean they have absolutely no hesitancy to say things that most adults would be fearful to utter and also that comes with youth, which is something so beautiful as an elder watching youth's, you know, sense of immortality almost, because that's how you feel when you are that age.

Sirius (left, largest and brightest star) in the night sky. Cafuego / CC BY-SA 2.0

RC: There's one other item that I noticed in the U.S. chart. The Sun Sign of the U.S. is 13 degrees of Cancer. And that is where the star Sirius is. The ancients looked at Sirius as the harbinger of the new, the bringer of light. It was personified as the great mother, as Isis, and in Ancient Egypt it was the beginning of the sacred year. Now there is no coincidence that our founders chose July 4th or wound up on July 4th inaugurating our nation, because with the Sun passing over that sacred star of the ancients of the last 5,000 years, we know it really put into action a New Order of the Ages, since that star represents the beginning of a new epoch. Now, January 17th of next year 2019, Saturn in Capricorn is going to transit an opposition to our U.S. Sun. I looked at that and I thought, as head of state, the Sun represents in a horoscope, there is going to be a demise, a dissolution, a dissipation of what we know of now. So somebody who's up there as head of state is certainly not going to be playing that role by January of 2019.

ZH: Fascinating. You know each time you join us, sometimes I get emails afterwards "you guys are ridiculous" and then they come back (and say) "oh my God, you were right." So I think the beauty and I want to thank you for not only your knowledge, but the wise way in which you integrate it for most people who aren't astrologers, don't know what these terms necessarily mean, but I myself as a broadcaster and as a sort of weekend astrologer let's call it that way, amateur astrologer, I deeply appreciate what you bring to it Rosemary. So we look forward to your rejoining us and thank you again for a remarkable hour in so many important ways for all of us.

RC: I'm happy to share what I know and humbly know so that others can look to the future with some optimism.

ZH: Amen to that. Thank you so much.

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Listen to this interview on our audio archive page.

Transcription by Meg Bowen.